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Forum » Lost Girl » Lost Girl General Discussion » Dybo vs Doccubus vs Valkubus - Exploring Bo's Relationships
Dybo vs Doccubus vs Valkubus - Exploring Bo's Relationships
UberFaenaticDate: Wednesday, 02 Oct 13, 1:18 AM | Message # 1
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I always am amused when fans of a specific pairing use chemistry as their primary reason for dissing other pairings. I'm not talking specifically about the LG fandom here...I believe this is common throughout pretty much any fandom for tv shows, movies, etc.

The reason I find it humorous is that chemistry is in the eye of the beholder.  Telling someone that a pairing has chemistry and demanding they agree is akin to telling someone what their favorite flavor of ice cream has to be because they like it too.

I think Bo has chemistry with pretty much everyone.  They could not have done a better job in casting Anna Silk because to me, she just oozes the kind of energy one would expect from a succubus. wink

For the record, I've shipped her with Dyson.  I've shipped her with Lauren.  Heck, I even shipped her with Ryan!  Because I've felt her connection with each of them...and more importantly, I've felt what I believe are pivotal steps in her development.

In these posts, I'm not going to make my case for Valkubus based solely on chemistry because some people will see it and some people won't.  Instead, I'd like to focus on Bo and her journey and growth as a character and how each relationship has marked a new step along that path.

Let's start with Dyson.  Bo had just spent years and years on the run.  She had no friends nor lovers, only those unfortunate to be around her when she was hungry and it would seem she tried to make sure her targets were bad people.  She was resigned to living her life alone and on the run, thinking of herself as a demon who was unworthy of love.  Meeting Kenzi changed all that.

I would like to point out an interesting parellel with Tamsin, who, when she first arrived on the scene had no friends and I feel equally views herself as unlovable and resigned to her fate.

Of course, we all know that it was through saving Kenzi and face sucking the guy in the elevator that she's introduced to the fae in general and Dyson in particular.

Dyson provided several character development moments for her.  First and foremost, he fae-napped her and brought her to the Ash's compound, where she learned who and what she is and he connected her with the Dal and with Trick.

He allowed her to feed off of him and got her to see that she could feed without killing.  Same with sex.

What started as a sure fire way to feed and heal safely (well, mostly safe) grew into more as her feelings and his blossomed, even when he pushed her away at Trick's behest and she endured rejection for the first time in her life (leading to her first ménage à fae).

And so she got to experience her first mature, loving adult relationship with all its joys and trials which, I felt, after its initial growing pains (and Dyson's jealous streak) had become something solid. She must have felt that way as well since she was ready to make a full on commitment when Dyson gave his all to save her against Aife...and as a result she also got to experience her first lost love thanks to the Norn.

Bo is an exceptionally emotionally mature individual, such a departure from her mother; and was able to work her way through it and become stronger as a result.

Added (02 Oct 13, 1:18 AM)
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(Continued)

I supported her affair with Ryan (until the Morrigan thing) since I felt it gave her an outlet both sexually and emotionally...sort of like the respite she found in Samir and Olivia but without all the psycho, behead-y complications.  I also liked that she was conflicted and that she screwed up with Kenzi...that her attraction for Ryan overrode her reasoning and she zigged when she should have zagged. But of course in the end, she and he parted ways and that was certainly for the best.

Through it all, Dyson and Bo's connection continued with its ups and downs...and Ciara.  And once he got his love back courtesy of Kenzi Bunyan and her rippin' chainsaw, he showed how much he loved her by respecting her relationship with Lauren.

The major relationship issue that they had...Dyson's jealousy...seems to have been relegated to Season 1 alone...and by Season 3, he was well past it and much more mature about things.  He stood by her side through the Dawning (an event I STILL do not get) and finally admitted how he felt, knowing she would not walk away from Lauren but looking ahead to the long game.

Bo is his one and only love...as he and others said, wolves mate for life and she is his mate.

That said, I do not think that he is hers.

Now it could be that when all is said and done, she ends up with him.  Their relationship was stolen from them without either of their consent so it is theoretically possible that as time goes on, she finds her way back to him.

I don't know that I believe that though.  I think she has outgrown him and the relationship...at least the romantic side of things.

I think she'll always love him...he was her first and she trusts him implicitly, but I believe her path...her story...is leading her in a different direction.


"And I wonder...can you really know yourself without memory? I mean, can you really know what you want?" - Bo Dennis, "Of All the Gin Joints"

Post edited by Eternal-Dust - Wednesday, 02 Oct 13, 12:20 PM
 
UberFaenaticDate: Wednesday, 02 Oct 13, 1:45 AM | Message # 2
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I liked Lauren from the first moment we see her and she makes her initial contact with Bo during the examination.  From her, we learn what Bo is, as well as specific traits of a succubus, such as their alluring properties and their ability to manipulate through touch.

Lauren taught Bo a lot about herself and how to channel and control her power and how to regulate her feeding so as not to kill.

Then came the spybang.  Lauren screwed up. Huge.  And made it worse by making excuses for herself, declaring that she didn't do anything wrong.  In essence she proved Dyson's warning to Bo to be an anvil rather than the blusters of a jealous wolf.  Lauren realized and acknowledged how big a mistake she made but by then the damage was done.

The writers have not done her character any favors.  They provided sweet setups...and then dropped them quickly.  Think Nadia.  And speaking of Nadia, her "devotion" to her frozen lover makes the spybang that much more egregious.  She justified her actions to herself as trying to keep Bo safe but neglected the cost to Bo's feelings once the truth came out.

Lauren appealed to the part of Bo that yearns for human normalcy.  Lauren represents the ideal of a regular life...white picket fence, kids.  

Having met Aife and seeing what her kind are like, I think Bo was repulsed by it and that made her want to be human-like even more.

From the start, Bo has wanted to reject her fae-ness and embrace humanity.  Ironically, Lauren encouraged her to accept herself and her needs and gifts.  I say "ironically" because I think a part of those needs and gifts led to their inevitable destruction as a couple.  I'll get to that later.

So in season 3 with Lauren, Bo had the illusion of normality.  They pretended for awhile that she was not a succubus.  But the thing is, she IS a succubus.

She cannot now nor can she ever have a monogamous relationship with a human.

I also think that there's a very good chance that their sexual relationship was very vanilla, very sweet and sensual, very tame by Bo's standards.  Bo is extra aware of Lauren's humanity and after a decade of dead human lovers, I'll bet she treated her with kidgloves.  But Bo needs more than that.  

Think about Dyson.  He could barely keep up with her appetite.  She didn't go easy on him and he showed the wear of it.  It hurt him...a fae...to have a sexual relationship with her that met all her needs... but it was worth it to him.

Now back to Lauren.  If Dyson could barely keep up, there was no chance that she could.  And I think Bo needs that.  She needs the extra bits.  She needs aggressive and kink and menage a faes.  

Remember the awkward scene when Bo and Lauren had picked up the blonde hottie and Kenzi and Lauren walked in on them in bed?  Lauren was like, "and oh my God, there's choking."  Now yes I know that was to attract the viewers attention to Bo "choking" her in order to make us think that she went too far like she did with coma dark fae dude...but it also highlighted to me that Bo needs that extra lift from those kinds of encounters she can never get from a human.  Not monogamously and not long term anyway.

And then Bo got hurt and was forced to feed off of Dyson or die.  I think this really brought everything home here.  Lauren, who initially encouraged Bo to embrace her nature had in fact been working with her to try to suppress it.  She finally realizes the futility of such a venture.

Then came the one rule...no wolf.  That's fine if we're talking random feeding...but she should have stipulated that in life saving emergencies it'd be okay.  Because knowing Bo, she would allow herself to bleed out rather than break a vow like that.

Lauren's humanness, which was such an attraction for Bo, becomes a stumbling block.  The very thing that draws them together would inevitably separate them because I think Lauren, who loves Bo, is at the same time wanting to embrace humanity and Bo's fae nature is a constant reminder for her that Bo is not human and has needs that she cannot ever meet.

Unstoppable force, immovable object.

Added (02 Oct 13, 1:45 AM)
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(Continued)

On top of it all...I don't think they ever really recovered from Lauren's betrayal during Kenzi's kitzune-napping.

And then we get to final straw that broke the camel's back...when the young delinquent beat the crap out of Lauren....something that had nothing to do with Bo except once again, highlighting how the fae have caused an endless mountain of grief for her.

I've read on some boards how some yearn for a real relationship between them for next year...a reunion that will showcase how they're totally OTPs.  

And my question for them is...have you seen season 3?  Because I have.  And as a former doccubus fan, it proved to me that they are about as incompatible for a long term relationship as you can get.

Some argued that only Lauren can make Bo happy...which is categorically and provably false.  It also misses the point.  

Bo didn't break up with Lauren...it was the other way around.  In fact, Lauren sideswiped Bo, told her she wasn't happy and that she felt she'd always be asking from Bo things she cannot give.  

But she doesn't ask Bo for time for them to be together to work things out.  She instead dumps this emotional waste on Bo, who is clearly flummoxed and left reeling from this spewage and simply ends them, leaving Bo with a sad little cardboard box and living in denial about them just being on a break.

Bo has no say in the matter, just like with Dyson.  Except here, it was Lauren's choice.  

Now the thing is, I agree with Lauren's conclusions...but I think she was entirely unfair in how she had this talk.  I'll give her a bit of a break because she was a mess because of the beat down.  But in truth, neither of them had been especially honest with each other and both focused on completely meaningless things rather than on the trust and entirely necessary foundational elements of a relationship.

They didn't communicate. They didn't discuss things ever, really.

Lauren's scene with Bo and Taft kind of emphasizes this point.  Yes, I know Lauren was putting on a show for Taft's benefit so that she could make up for her role in what was happening with Dyson and the other fae who were kidnapped and murdered by Taft... but I think she injected enough truth in it to keep Taft going...such as talking about how the fae ruined her life and teasing the fact that her name isn't Lauren.

Highlighting the fact that Bo doesn't really know her like she thinks she does.

The thing is though, that's on Lauren's head just as much as Bo's... in fact more so.  She's had more experience with relationships and it was her truth to tell.  But she doesn't tell Bo.

Then again, she lied to Nadia endlessly too about her feelings for Bo.  

So while I give Lauren props for being extremely talented and I think she has a good heart for caring for those in need, she suc-cubusses at relationships.

Look...I don't hate Lauren.  She's had a tough go with the fae, living as a slave essentially and sometimes literally in bondage.  I think she is at times poorly written though and right now, I don't like her a whole lot for how she yanked the rug out from beneath Bo and left her staggering in the wake of a completely unexpected breakup.

I hope the Karen Beattie thing isn't as lame an arc as what they did with her Nadia arc...with how quickly it came and went...but like I said at the start, the writers have not done her character any favors with how they've written her.  It's like a series of different writers wanting to take her into completely different directions with no sense of continuity.

Looking ahead, I anticipate that there will be a reunion of sorts, they'll work out some of their stuff... but other than a random dalliance or tryst now and then, I do not see them getting past what I think are fae-tal flaws.  

Bo will always be succubus.  And Lauren will always want more than Bo can give...which in this case I think is normality, monogamy and humanity.

I think that they will always love each other...but as the song goes, "Sometimes love just ain't enough."


"And I wonder...can you really know yourself without memory? I mean, can you really know what you want?" - Bo Dennis, "Of All the Gin Joints"
 
UberFaenaticDate: Wednesday, 02 Oct 13, 1:48 AM | Message # 3
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As I have repeatedly emphasized, I like all of Bo's relationships because each serve a purpose in her character development and help propel her storyline.

The conflict that exists helps gin up the enjoyment for me as we have obstacles our couple need to overcome.  

With Dyson, it was Trick and Dyson's jealousy and fae politics.  

With Lauren, it was her humanity and Nadia and the spybang and the mess they made by not communicating and not being honest with each other.

But nothing compares to setting up a couple to be enemies when they first meet.  Add to that the "Wanderer" complications and personality clashes...and oh yeah, the fact that one of them is in a committed relationship and the other believes loving someone will get you killed and you have a combination that will create enough drama, angst and charged moments that keeps someone like me very happy.  

To say that Tamsin has a lot of character development moments with Bo is an understatement of fae proportions and the set up of who and what they are automatically make for fascinating storytelling.

First off, I like the fact that they are not what they should be.  Bo "should" be dark. She should be obsessed with herself, a narcissist who doesn't care who or what she feeds on.  She shouldn't care about others.  In other words, Bo should be "Saskia".  (I think this was the type of person Tamsin was expecting with Bo.)

Tamsin "should" be light.  She should be virtuous and noble.  Instead, she's an emotionally crippled, broken mercenary at the end of her life cycle who made so many mistakes that she doesn't see a path of redemption for herself.

But I think in her own way, even with her failings, she does possess her own honor code that she lives by.  She's honest to a fault, so much so that most people who are continually manipulated and lied to, like Bo, miss key pieces of information because they expect them to be misdirections and dodges.

She could have let Bo rot for attacking "Kenzi" but instead, she put herself on the line and gave herself time to get to know Bo better and rescue the human that means so much to her.

She could have told Evony that coma fae had IDd Bo.  But she didn't because she knew the root basis for the animosity against Bo was a lie.  That moment in the car with the Morrigan emphasized this.  Here we have Bo on the one hand, risking herself and doing anything she can to save a friend...and on the other hand we have the Morrigan, who doesn't care if coma fae guy dies as long as she can use the information to nail Bo.

Then there's the issue of their mutual attraction.  We know she's attracted to Bo.  The writers, who have created a near to impossible situation for them (for Season 3 at least), generated notable scenarios that allowed us to see it.  First when they "forgot" who they were and why they didn't like each other.  Bo didn't know or care that she was with Lauren and Tamsin knew basic truths about her role as a valkyrie and how she was set up to not like Bo but did not feel the animosity behind that knowledge.

So they didn't feel any of the burdens real life pressed on them when they played spin the bottle...and when they kissed and felt that zing, it was raw and pure and unsullied.  Both felt it, and both wanted to experience more.

In the woods, Bo is "forced" to feed on Tamsin and we see her react again to her chi (which I think "tasted" different because Tamsin is at the end of her life cycle).

Added (02 Oct 13, 1:48 AM)
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(Continued)

In Brazenwood, we have the fact that Tamsin is with her to begin with...that she dressed up for her to take her to lunch, that she stayed with her throughout the entire event.  We have the back and forth and Tamsin flirting and we have the kiss.

I concede the kiss was directly related to Trick and Stella...but those who are using that as an excuse to blow it off are missing three very key points.

First... the machine affected Bo, not Tamsin.  So it might have juiced her attractiveness quotient to eleven to make her irresistible, but that only merely confirms the base attraction between them both that they try to ignore for a wide variety of reasons.

Second...Tamsin may have initiated the kiss, but Bo reciprocated.  It was not one sided.  Bo did not push Tamsin away but rather Tamsin came to her senses and was the one to pull back.

Third...we do not see unscripted moments.  It's not like we have a hidden camera and are catching these things unaware.  

If they had wanted to, they could have had Bo kiss Dyson in the spin the bottle scene.

They could have had Bo be fully energized when searching for Kenzi and had Lauren at her side.

Bo could have been with Lauren when approached by the Spriggan and she could have been the one with her in Brazenwood.

But the writers put those moments in for a reason.  They are scripting these events to give us the viewers insight into something happening between them that cannot be fully realized because of the mountain of roadblocks between them.

Tamsin is drawn to Bo, is perplexed by her, is attracted to her and has feelings for her.  And it is this understanding that adds so much more depth to the Wanderer storm...because she's not just a mark.  Because she has feelings for Bo.

She seems to have everything under control until the hand in the box...and then she gives herself over and allows her feelings to morph into hate because that's so much easier for her to manage.  It's so much easier to destroy when you can't stand the person you're going after.

And then comes the despair and desolation.  The bathtub scene.  And I'm sorry, but a platonic friends does not get into their platonic friend's bubble baths and tell them how perfect they are.  This is yet another moment that, had the writers wanted to do so, could have been written in an entirely different way, in an entirely different setting...where Tamsin and Bo could have had a similar conversation with a totally different emotional resonance.

As an aside, I've wondered about what Bo was seeing in Tamsin's energy during that scene.  Broken Tamsin is pouring her heart out as best she can and is pressed against Bo's knees and Bo asks her what she's doing.  Interesting parallel...when Lauren kissed Bo leading up to the spybang, Bo asked her what she was doing too.  But in that case, Lauren was fully on and engaged.  Here, Tamsin is self-destructing and full of despair.  Could Bo see beyond that?  I'm not sure...she seems to be puzzled by the entire encounter but I'll bet she relived it several times thereafter, trying to make sense of all the signals she was picking up from Tamsin.  (Is it just me or does she look kind of like she was expecting Tamsin to kiss her at the end there?)

Next we have Tamsin living at Lauren's.  Again, this is scripted...not an accident.  The writers created yet another major interaction between Bo and Tamsin, leading up to them going to rescue Dyson, Tamsin taking a bullet for Bo and Bo learning of Tamsin's imminent betrayal, which must have confused the heck out of her given all the signals she had been receiving from Tamsin.

Little things like kisses and bathtubs and taking bullets.

A key interaction is Bo insisting she rescue Dyson and Lauren and Tamsin yelling at her, "why do you care so much?"  And you know she's thinking about how Bo went after Kenzi and how Bo asked about the dark coma fae guy when she learned she didn't kill the blonde hottie...and any number of other moments where Bo proved her perfection, even though she was blind to it herself.  

The virtuous succubus.  An impossible being.  An oxymoron.

Added (02 Oct 13, 1:48 AM)
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(Continued)

Then Bo learned that Tamsin was at the end of her lifecycle and is distressed by it.  And Tamsin finds out Bo knows about that and is upset...why? Because she doesn't want Bo to know her weakness?  To think less of her?

In Taft's cell, Tamsin seems genuinely distressed when Aife talks about Bo's father, perhaps she experienced that reality herself (being killed, revived and killed again over and over) or may it's an anvil for Season 4 for Tamsin...or maybe she just witnessed it in others.  But she clearly blanched when Aife was talking.

And she seemed to hurt for Bo...I don't think she was faking here like she did when she took Bo's hair.

The last character/relationship beat isn't the betrayal itself that falls flat when the potion doesn't work, nor is it the fight...but rather post fight when Bo sees through to the fact that Tamsin doesn't want to hurt Bo and that perhaps she's using Bo as that "sweet out" given her situation.

"You're more alive than anyone that I have ever met."

And here, Tamsin has a choice...and she makes it, even though she knows she's going to pay for it.  She joins Team Bo, and plays along when Bo speaks of a safe place because she knows there isn't one on earth.

"You're not like anyone I've ever met in any of my many lifetimes."

And Bo takes a step towards her, and to me it feels like energy is pouring off of her in waves leading up to a possible kiss...and Tamsin doesn't know what to do with it and so they move on.  Tamsin to her Thelma & Louise act with Dyson and Bo to a puff of smoke at the Dal.

Most if not all of these beats are how Tamsin has been affected and changed by Bo.  Mostly because Bo had been in a committed relationship and, even through the finale is still fairly preoccupied with it.

But Tamsin gave Bo things that neither Dyson nor Lauren did.  She trusted her when she shouldn't and no one else did and helped her save Kenzi...and she was honest with her in ways neither Dyson nor Lauren ever seemed to be able to be.

I think Tamsin has the potential of accepting Bo for who and what she is in ways that neither Dyson nor Lauren could and I think she holds keys to unlocking Bo's potential and her past and help propel her storyline forward.

In other words, I think Dyson and Lauren were important steps along Bo's journey...but I think she has out grown them...whereas I feel Tamsin embodies both her past and her future.

I think the writers have done a good job "setting the table" for a relationship in season 4 and/or beyond but who knows if that relationship is a long term romance or if seeing it only proves incompatibility, like seeing Doccubus realized did for me.

Will they follow through on what they set up?  Who knows?  lol  But I cannot imagine them writing all the beats...some of them sexually charged...without any intention of playing it out in one form or another.


"And I wonder...can you really know yourself without memory? I mean, can you really know what you want?" - Bo Dennis, "Of All the Gin Joints"
 
LanieDate: Wednesday, 02 Oct 13, 4:00 AM | Message # 4
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The writers have definitely set something (romantic) between Bo & Tamsin, but will they follow it through in s4? Honestly, I'm not that sure and will be (pleasantly) surprised if they really do. We already have the love triangle drama and I don't think a 4th regular LG character will be added to it. Even if I agree that Tamsin actually seems to be the most compatible with Bo of all three potential candidates, I think the writers will stick to Bo-Lo-Dy drama.
Great analysis, btw! smile


 
UberFaenaticDate: Wednesday, 02 Oct 13, 4:46 AM | Message # 5
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Thank you! biggrin Of course I don't know either. I just wanted to get the analysis of all three ships out of my head and in word form so other people could read and see if others agree with me or what they disagree with or whatever.

As for whether they could happen or not... I keep going back to that tweet from the writers back in July before they locked down on spoilery tweets...



Could they be talking about Tamsin and Bo?  Could they be talking about someone else?

Could they just be yanking our chains?  wink


"And I wonder...can you really know yourself without memory? I mean, can you really know what you want?" - Bo Dennis, "Of All the Gin Joints"
 
SHCDate: Wednesday, 02 Oct 13, 10:09 AM | Message # 6
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I have to agree with Lanie great analysis UberFaenatic! 

Quote (UberFaenatic)
To say that Tamsin has a lot of character development moments with Bo is an understatement of fae proportions

This sentence alone makes me wish somehow  that  Tamsin podcast had someone who was open to see the possibility of Tamsin being brought in as a love interest. Like Lanie said I don't know that Valkubus will happen though I sure as hell hope so, but even if it doesn't happen to reduce their whole interactions to jealousy of Bo irks me, there is such a strong connection between those two. It's so clear that the writers were setting something up indeed, but that does bring up a question for me. Why have them all be contrived? Was that their way of testing the waters? 

When people tell me Bo & Tamsin are sisters, or was in no way meant to be a LI for Bo, I always go back to that Comic Con interview from 2012 with EA and JF. The interviewer asks about a possible new love interest (as AS suggested when the person interviewed her too) Emily goes on to say it would have to be someone that came out of nowhere and challenged Bo, an equal of sorts. Then JF goes on to say..." We put some challenges there with the new character" and who is the new character?
\
Quote (UberFaenatic)
Third...we do not see unscripted moments.  It's not like we have a hidden camera and are catching these things unaware.
 
True. While us as viewers may be aware that the machine played a part in the kiss, none of the characters are aware of this. I found it interesting that there is also no way for them to possibly know ever, Trick & Stella are completely unaware of what happened as are Bo & Tamsin.

Quote (UberFaenatic)
As an aside, I've wondered about what Bo was seeing in Tamsin's energy during that scene.
 
I kinda feel they dropped the whole Bo can see 'auras' because after Dyson lost his love had she been able to see his 'aura' it would have rendered those few episodes where Bo tries to get him back to nonsense. She should have known something was missing or off at least if she could indeed read his energy.

Quote (UberFaenatic)
Will they follow through on what they set up?  Who knows?  lol  But I cannot imagine them writing all the beats...some of them sexually charged...without any intention of playing it out in one form or another

I want to say yes, but my realistic side says probably not. This is a show that openly admits they take feedback from fans, and that scares me.

Anyway thanks for these posts, it really does cover most of what I find not to work with the other two relationships and why I love the possibility of Valkubus. Hope you continue to contribute.

p.s Now I am wondering what your take is on this whole they are sisters spec. 
 
SHCDate: Wednesday, 02 Oct 13, 10:14 AM | Message # 7
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Quote (Lanie)
Even if I agree that Tamsin actually seems to be the most compatible with Bo of all three potential candidates, I think the writers will stick to Bo-Lo-Dy drama.

I think this too, but really hope this season won't be so much about it, I know a lot of people are fed up with both relationships (unless you actively ship them) and the back and forth but they did say the triangle will always be there, sigh... angry
 
Eternal-DustDate: Wednesday, 02 Oct 13, 12:24 PM | Message # 8
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Hello there! Thank you for joining the community and providing us with your excellent analysis. I've decided to merge all three threads into one so that it would encourage a more centralized discussion on all three of Bo's relationships. I will go back and thoroughly read over these posts again so I can join in. Carry on! 



Bo: "I'm alright, but I'm not perfect."
Tamsin: "Yes, you are. To me, you are."
 
BridgetGallDate: Wednesday, 02 Oct 13, 12:59 PM | Message # 9
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Hey just tuning in, I will go back and read all the other posts but I am just replying to SheHadACorpse.  ;) 

I totally agree with the whole "the writers will keep Bo-Lo-Dy drama". It sucks, but I see that happening haha. It's just, if they wanted to make Tamsin seem much more vulnerable and make Bo and her come together as friends, I don't get why they made their relationship so sexual. Like there is NO denying that Bo wanted to kiss Tamsin right after their fight scene in the finale. And I mean they have kissed like three times already, it's just odd to me that if they didn't want people to totally ship Valkubus they wouldn't have done all of those scenes. That is what is making me hope that there is SOMETHING there between them in this next season other than just friends.
 
Eternal-DustDate: Wednesday, 02 Oct 13, 1:45 PM | Message # 10
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Quote (UberFaenatic)
And then comes the despair and desolation.  The bathtub scene.  And I'm sorry, but a platonic friends does not get into their platonic friend's bubble baths and tell them how perfect they are.  This is yet another moment that, had the writers wanted to do so, could have been written in an entirely different way, in an entirely different setting...where Tamsin and Bo could have had a similar conversation with a totally different emotional resonance.

I absolutely agree. If it were just Tamsin expressing her admiration of Bo in a platonic way, why write it in that way and choose that setting specifically -- with Bo naked in a bathtub? It underlines a very romantic atmosphere, but then there is Tamsin --drunk, confused, and desolate. She is very restrained throughout the whole scene, despite laying out all of her feelings onto the table. This is who she is -- honest, straightforward -- and yet she does not engage Bo or take advantage of her in anyway. I just respect that so much.

Quote (UberFaenatic)
But Tamsin gave Bo things that neither Dyson nor Lauren did.  She trusted her when she shouldn't and no one else did and helped her save Kenzi...and she was honest with her in ways neither Dyson nor Lauren ever seemed to be able to be.

I believe Tamsin can fill in all the gaps that Bo desperately needs in a relationship. Unlike Dyson, she doesn't appear to be possessive. She is more attuned to what Bo needs and she understands that. And unlike Lauren, she will tell Bo what she needs to hear whether she likes it or not.

Quote (SheHadACorpse)
I think this too, but really hope this season won't be so much about it, I know a lot of people are fed up with both relationships (unless you actively ship them) and the back and forth but they did say the triangle will always be there, sigh...

I think the writers stubbornly believe that the triangle is the only thing to drive the show, when in reality it's the complete opposite. I hope they see the wonderful set up that they have paved with Tamsin and the (potential) Valkubus relationship. If they'd just brave some changes we'd all be for the better. Honestly, how long can you drag out the triangle until people just stop watching the show altogether?


Bo: "I'm alright, but I'm not perfect."
Tamsin: "Yes, you are. To me, you are."
 
Fangirl-outletDate: Wednesday, 02 Oct 13, 4:31 PM | Message # 11
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Quote (Eternal-Dust)
Honestly, how long can you drag out the triangle until people just stop watching the show altogether?

I think that's probably why they introduced Tamsin. They'd already pulled the dramatic back and forth stops between Lauren and Bo and Dyson and Bo, and things were starting to get stale. Dyson's character was relegated to this lame emo guy that rested the weight of everything on his own shoulders, creating an arrogance about him, and Lauren became nothing more than Bo's love interest. There were paths that they could have taken, but they'd all be repeats of past events with a few tweaks in specifics. They rushed into everything with the triangle, and were unable to draw it out, so they needed something to stir shit up. Not to mention they had yet to explore very vital sides to Bo's character with the romances that she'd had, each of them neglecting large parts of Bo's identity. They needed someone to pull the real Bo out, I suppose. At least, that's how I see it. Hopefully they go through with that, because I'm not sure I can take anymore character assassinations from them.


"Why do you care so much!?"
 
ValkyrieLiquorCabinetDate: Wednesday, 02 Oct 13, 5:54 PM | Message # 12
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Quote (BridgetGall)
And I mean they have kissed like three times already, it's just odd to me that if they didn't want people to totally ship Valkubus they wouldn't have done all of those scenes. That is what is making me hope that there is SOMETHING there between them in this next season other than just friends.
That's what bugs me. Why mess up with our minds showing Bo and Tamsin kissing more than one time! and have all those scenes with crazy tension if Valkubus in one form or another isn't happening?? 
I'm 1000% sure they know there are quite many routing for Bo and Tamsin to get together, they gotta give something!
 
UberFaenaticDate: Wednesday, 02 Oct 13, 10:58 PM | Message # 13
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Quote (SheHadACorpse)
to reduce their whole interactions to jealousy of Bo irks me, there is such a strong connection between those two. It's so clear that the writers were setting something up indeed, but that does bring up a question for me. Why have them all be contrived? Was that their way of testing the waters?

I think there is a little jealousy mixed in there but things are significantly more complex than that. Bo shouldn't exist. She's the exact opposite of what she should be.  She's valiant and gentle...and a succubus.  And Tamsin seems to long have given up all of those things in order to function as a mercenary.  Bo upends her life and her thinking completely.  She undoes her from stem to stern.

As for the contrived moments, that actually makes total sense to me.  Tamsin has been alone for how long now? She had equated love with essentially weakness...that it'll get you killed.  When she first arrives on the scene, she's sent there to hate Bo and take her down...and Bo was in a committed relationship.  Given those parameters, the only way there could be any dalliances would be through contrived means.

As for testing the waters, I suppose that's true too but to what end? Online fandom is not a comprehensive representation of the whole of viewers.  Heck, I'm new to LG online fandom but I've been obsessed with the show from the jump and I thought everyone thought as I did wrt the progress Bo's character had made and how each relationship moved her forward only to have a scary awakening when I decided to check out online fandom. lol

Quote (SheHadACorpse)
While us as viewers may be aware that the machine played a part in the kiss, none of the characters are aware of this.

Right and I also found it interesting that both Tamsin and Bo told others about that kiss.  Tamsin told Lauren when she was mid-self destructive/let the world burn mode and Bo teased Kenzi with it and later essentially said she had to think about what it meant.

Quote (SheHadACorpse)
p.s Now I am wondering what your take is on this whole they are sisters spec.

I rewatched the season to look for any kind of cues that they could be going there, but got distracted by all the instances they wrote them kissing and interacting in a very non-sisterly way. wink

Seriously though, if anything, they'd be half-sisters (she didn't have a clue as to who Aife was), possibly thousands of years removed and even then that's a stretch.  Yes, there are variations of lore that have the valkyrie as daughters of Odin, but in others, aren't they his handmaidens there to serve him alone?

Besides...look at the Thelma and Louise scene.  Tamsin tells Dyson, "It's Bo's father."  A very specific reference. She didn't have to say that.  She could have said any number of other things.  She didn't have to say anything at all.

At this point at least, I see this being pushed by people who want her out of the way as a possible rival for their favorite ship. ie, wishcasting.

And frankly, I'd be super-icked to see this is the direction they were going after giving us several scenes that show an attraction that is decidedly not sisterly.

Added (02 Oct 13, 10:43 PM)
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Quote (BridgetGall)
Like there is NO denying that Bo wanted to kiss Tamsin right after their fight scene in the finale. And I mean they have kissed like three times already, it's just odd to me that if they didn't want people to totally ship Valkubus they wouldn't have done all of those scenes. That is what is making me hope that there is SOMETHING there between them in this next season other than just friends.

Bo wanted to kiss her then, possibly wanted to kiss her in the tub at the end of that scene, definitely reciprocated the Brazenwood kiss and both of them wanted to kiss again in Confaegion.  So there is attraction and they made a point of putting them in for our (the viewers) benefit.

Quote (Eternal-Dust)
Honestly, how long can you drag out the triangle until people just stop watching the show altogether?

I think that depends on how they do this.  Bo loves Lauren. Bo loves Dyson.  But during season 3, her relationship with Dyson had morphed into strong respect/friendship with a hook toward the distant future, at least from Dyson's perspective.

But just because there will be character beats where we see she ha s loving feelings toward them...or even a random tryst, that doesn't mean she'll engage in a committed relationship with either anytime in the near future.  So it could be that the triangle is more about the emotional weight of their history and connection.

I could be entirely wrong of course but I cannot see a path where Bo and Lauren try the whole monogamous relationship thing again anytime in the near future...and I think unless something truly drastic happens, she's grown beyond her romantic relationship with Dyson.

But like I said... there may be love between these folks, but sometimes love is not enough.

Added (02 Oct 13, 10:58 PM)
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Oh and another point.  Remember how Rachel Skarsten wrapped her arm around Anna and said, "Well, like how about Team Valkubus?"

Anna says pretty clearly that it's a valid team and then quips..."I play on a lot of teams."

I daresay, she wouldn't have made a point of saying it's a "valid team" if she knew they were sisters.  Heck, I don't think Rachel would have brought it up in the first place, since the question was about Doccubus and Anna answering and talking about what has made it special.



"And I wonder...can you really know yourself without memory? I mean, can you really know what you want?" - Bo Dennis, "Of All the Gin Joints"

Post edited by UberFaenatic - Wednesday, 02 Oct 13, 10:59 PM
 
marieksparkleDate: Thursday, 17 Oct 13, 9:23 PM | Message # 14
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omg you guys I totally found out someting!  

whenever bo feeds from tamsin you can hear a heartbeat! in the kenzi episode it's really obvious in the "juice me" part less but it's still there.  Now I tried to check other feeding scenes (dyson (gross) the morrigan that guy at the entrance... ) couldnt find that many on youtube though, but it seems that the heartbeat sound only appears when she feeds from tamsin. ... 

did I just find out something really amazing?!   has anyone else noticed? ( I didnt read the whole thread yet, it's 3 am here now, but omalora made me post this anyway.)

If the heartbeat thing is not true, I'll just go back to not wanting the 10th to come because I don't want my dreams to be crushed...
 
SHCDate: Thursday, 17 Oct 13, 10:02 PM | Message # 15
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Quote marieksparkle ()
has anyone else noticed?
 
I actually noticed in Those Who Wander but never bothered to check if it was a thing. Will have to check now!!!
 
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